Well i was just about to respond to you but the RAA mods closed the thread down. So i copy and pasted my response and i guess my only choice is to post it here


Ryan: "What you don't know is he is the same guy who basically went back and forth between fan forums doing his best to stir this up.
What is troubling is this- the harsh truths and the loose tongues of fan forums seem to be ok for fans. It seems to be fine for you all to go off the deep end either way with adoration or with negativity. Even the truth is distorted to a degree that it does not resemble itself anymore. And much of this is done with very little regard for not getting personal. You assassinate my personality, *my work, and each other on a regular, sometimes daily basis.
** But when it's me... When I say things the same way or use the message board in the same way with the same irresponsible language, then it's mayhem and all of a sudden I am a "bad dude". The rules don't apply for me or better yet- in this instance, he can dish it out but can't take it.
** *If you want to know what Rob Badgerwolf is really like and what he really instigated go look at his comments preceeding this at Alt-country.org. Or even the one's here. He was like a shark in a feeding frenzy- he tasted the discourse and couldn't wait to get started on finishing it all up.*
** In truth you don't know me nor ever will and I don't know you. But these forums, this one and those others, are scattered with people with no real expectations about what it means to be civil and you drift along in these anonymous places where there is no accountability and no boundaries.
** So dry your eyes. We will all need the tears when we look back at how much time we spent in these places arguing about nothing."

----------------------------

You are bang out of order Ryan

Yes i post mainly at the org over the years rather than RAA. Yes i have been critical of u in the past...when ive thought u deserved it. I have also defended you like a complete idiot on that board continually for about 8 years...what a waste of my time that was eh?

my posts on this subject and all others are all there in public to be seen. I didnt start the Neil Finn thread over there..but was heavily involved in chat about it...isnt that what we do in forums???

Heres my post at The Org:

"Im gutted that Neil and Ryan fell out like this. Neil Finn and Ryan Adams are my two favourite songwriters of all time. I heard about this gig on the day and was gutted i couldnt attend.

We all know Ryans rep and we know as a person hes not always very reasonable or mature. Thats just him. The fact that he bothered to go on RAA to post a reply tells me hes playing the political game trying to not fan flames, but inadvertently making it worse with a seperate fictional acccount...a bit like Carlos Tevez does in the football! Too many people that were there have said that Ryan embarrassed himself..and I think Janis Ians account i posted above sort of says it all.

Ive met Neil a few times, and you wont meet a nicer, more balanced individual. He has a typical New Zealand spike to his attitude, but hes not unpleasant or over argumentative..but he will call u out if youre being a shit. Ive seen him play 50 odd times (more times than ive seen Ryan) and every show, whether it be solo, with his brother Tim, or with Crowded House..he tries to make special and unique. His preparation is 100% professional.

All in all this is a storm in a tea cup.

Ryan will no doubt have a fit at future shows, cos we know when he gets a bee in his bonnet he burns up. But thats the bullshit you have to accept if you wanna witness his genius. As ive always said i hope the bullshit isnt what he is remembered for. He defo seems in a better place this year, so lets hope this is just a blip and that his stock rises for the right reason. But hes a little stupid doing what he did at a BBC recording. He needs the BBCs support in the UK to push his record."

So yes that was my 2p worth. I comment on stuff, and no one cares cos its just an opinion. i try and be balanced on my assessment of topics. Im sorry i dont always glow about you...i dont always think u deserve it.

However when you comment..on forums that bear your name...of course its a big deal! I was adding to the debate there and if you think im trying to character assasinate the man who ive called the greatest songwriter of his generation...well you just havent got a clue mate.

People at the Org will laugh their socks off as they know ive been one of your TRUE biggest supporters on the board, but that obv means nothing to you.

That org place is poison at times..i will grant you. I rarely post there like i used to in the days it was ryanadams.org...But im not one of 'those' fans.

None of this is my fault. I will keep the dignity i have displayed here in my prev response to you. And if you bother going to the Org to read the vast amount of crap on there, then the question is...Why?

'Im like a shark at a feeding frenzy?'????????

Get over yourself man. Surely this topic is dead now?

Regards

Rob

ps Ryan.. i will now get ripped to shreds here at this old Org. Let the sharks feed on my Ryan supporting carcass.
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

wgas

Rob - i wouldn't waste my time with this guy. It's obvious he's a douchebag. I've never seen you post anything remotely negative towards ryan. you're a great guy and it's obvious that ryan doesn't know shit, or he's confusing you with somebody else (hell, maybe me!)

oh bugger off you bloody fookin paki

if he's seen something here that he's upset about he should have posted it here...not at RAA where he knows everybody will gobble up his cock and defend him.

best "wgas" ever? i'm going with yes

Ryan Adams, will you join the film club?

i think he's calling out Badger because he's a douche

and then generalizing based on his experience with this board as a whole

the fact that people come on here and bash him and go over there and stir the shit up



but overwhelmingly he's calling badger out because he's a douche, and i'd say that's quite accurate (that's not racial is it?)

PS

badg, people aren't going to go after you because you like ryan adams. they're going to go after you because your annoying

-------------------------------------------------------

"You to mr703.......You are exactly the fuckd who have run many off this board. - gringo"

703 he's just pissed because he knows you never buy his music...only DL it illegally. haha

I have nearly every ryan vinyl

even "we are fuck you"


so take a suck from my dick

-------------------------------------------------------

"You to mr703.......You are exactly the fuckd who have run many off this board. - gringo"

oh hell why not...as long as you unzip it for me.

it's RAR'd

-------------------------------------------------------

"You to mr703.......You are exactly the fuckd who have run many off this board. - gringo"

i'll suck it...just make sure theres non of that shitty ass We Are Fuck You inside of that RAR.

Jesus Fucking Christ, who gives a flying fuck!

say 'flying fuck' 7 times fast.

here's one from kev:

stop reading here it isn't real



"lick my swingers you lucky people"
-coxyyxoc

"stop reading here it isn't real "

Ha!


------------------------------
comma police
I've given all I can
It's not enough
------------------------------

"Jesus Fucking Christ, who gives a flying fuck!"

It's called the Mile High Club...



Dumbass. ;)

Ryan REALLY should stay away from his own message boards. I thought he'd a learned that by now... it's only been about 10 years of heartache for him so far.

's all,
peas,
Baffy

"And her Baffy’s got arch
And her flipflop's all right"

For someone who is not bothered about Ryan's response earlier, this sure is a lot of effort to go to.

Just let it go.
**********************************
'Never have your wallet with you onstage. It’s bad luck. You shouldn’t play the piano with money in your pocket. Play like you need the money'

i was just responding to his last comment which was factually incorrect..no effort.

Sorry that this is so out of hand, but it ends here.
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

I'll believe that when I don't see it.
**********************************
'Never have your wallet with you onstage. It’s bad luck. You shouldn’t play the piano with money in your pocket. Play like you need the money'

I'll believe that when I don't see it.

Is there a time limit on that?

's all,
peas,
Baffy

"And her Baffy’s got arch
And her flipflop's all right"

I didn't even know Rob Thomas and Ryan Adams were friends.

Srsly. All this crap is muddling up our normal daily routine of every third post being a picture of a horse cock.


*************************************
highlife, you are wonderful--Doogie

I ain't got nothing but love for you now.

And do you know why Dave Thomas was real and his daughter Wendy was just a cartoon mascot? Cause Dave Thomas was easier on the eyes.

Message from Ryan to Rob

WGAS
---------------------
In regards to The Grateful Dead's "Wharf Rat":

"Some drugs work."

In regards to The Grateful Dead's "Dark Star":

"All drugs work."
Ryan Adams



-------------------

Is there a time limit on that?

No, which means I'll never believe it.
**********************************
'Never have your wallet with you onstage. It’s bad luck. You shouldn’t play the piano with money in your pocket. Play like you need the money'

I think she goes by Chaz Thomas now.

Whatever.

Thomas Edison invented the cheeseburger?

You know it.

I didn't even know Rob Thomas and Ryan Adams were friends.

They're clearly not.

's all,
peas,
Baffy

"And her Baffy’s got arch
And her flipflop's all right"

"Srsly. All this crap is muddling up our normal daily routine of every third post being a picture of a horse cock. "

hahahaa
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

Oh deary me. Ryan really is hell bent on people disliking him isn't he? I had just started to come back around to Ryan (new album is great), pity he's gone and fucked any goodwill he's created in the last 6 months.
---------------------------------

My thoughts exactly PT. I wonder why he has to snap, jump on the internet, and have a pop? When its easier just to let it go over your head and concentrate on the music and new album
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

I would imagine it's to do him being an arrogant, holier-than-thou, ego-maniac.
---------------------------------

From: JennyMchott

"Ryan Adams, will you join the film club?"

Oh deary me. Ryan really is hell bent on people disliking him isn't he? I had just started to come back around to Ryan (new album is great), pity he's gone and fucked any goodwill he's created in the last 6 months.

This.

's all,
peas,
Baffy

"And her Baffy’s got arch
And her flipflop's all right"

Tramp...and of course cos he reads the Org so readily he knows that i slag him off everytime i come here!

He obv hasnt read anything ive posted about him ever
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

heaven help the badgerwolf who tries to follow Ryan on twitter after this debacle


"JennyMcHott 10/3/11 2:07:58 PM
Ryan Adams, will you join the film club?"
<3


that goodwin/703 exchange is as arousing as it is hilarious
'RAR'd'
awesome

EL im waiting for my FB blocking!
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

Singing:

Paki Paki
i saw you come around
woke in the gutter
your skin so brown
buying liquor on the UK dole
Paki Paki i just want you to know

Paki Paki
you're a terrible sight
you came to London
on a red-eye flight
heard there were pounds that
they were giving away
got your own house and cute, white maid

Paki Paki
go back where you belong
we don't want you
you won't last long

England will be free from your kind oneday
Paki Paki
i mean this when i say
i've got my Black Shirt on

sung to the tune of Condi Condi?
AWU approves

i was singing it to the tune of that Grease song.. what's it called?

Summer Lovin

703:
it's "YOU'RE" ANNOYING

YOU'RE YOU'RE YOU'RE

GAWD.

the chorus doesn't work

it doesnt have to be exact. i like to be creative.

"Ryan Adams, will you join the film club?"

Hmmm..."I'm not gonna watch your stupid movie, you called me a bad name in another thread/on another board."

Does the club really need another ElevatorLady?

cunnilingus:
"Paki Paki
i saw you come around
woke in the gutter
your skin so brown
buying liquor on the UK dole
Paki Paki i just want you to know"

(sigh)

----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

oh wonderful

balv is back


and things were just starting to get fun again

-------------------------------------------------------

"You to mr703.......You are exactly the fuckd who have run many off this board. - gringo"

i heart Balv
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

not surprising you and balv are buddy buddy

i feel similar towards both of you

-------------------------------------------------------

"You to mr703.......You are exactly the fuckd who have run many off this board. - gringo"

"i feel similar towards both of you "

u find us both attractive? Thanks!
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

ha

Now we're cooking!

Everyone here is guilty by association.
________________

Doug's Discs

i plead guilty ya honour
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

Rob, darling. he's a cunt. a brilliant, gifted cunt, but a cunt no less. there are billions of them and complaining about it won't change that. enjoy the record and the shows, the money you're putting in his pocket is the only thing he's grateful for (when it comes to fans). chill.

oy...badger. Why do you even care about this anymore? Some things never change...and this one hasn't.

@703
it was good while it lasted.

what do i care about anymore Amy? It was only yesterday!

Poops i know exactly what hes like. Shame he had to try and name and shame me about something that i didnt do. Whateves

I only created this thread here cos they shut the thread down on RAA
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

I like the way you talk like a teenage girl, Rob. "Whateves", "u", etc.

:P

's all,
peas,
Baffy

"And her Baffy’s got arch
And her flipflop's all right"

I mean....why do you care about this Ryan bitching back when people say what he doesn't like...thing. OK..I guess that's what you did. nevermind.

Speak your mind, badger. Fuck Ryan if he can't take a joke.

Amy...Ryan addressed me directly so thats why i gave him an answer. My first comment on RAA was just a normal comment not really meant for him to reply to. I was surprised when he did. Anyway, im sure hes over it now

Baffy its the curse of twitter...fucking abbrev everything to fit 140 chars
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

how many days are you going to be pretend-upset that Ryan mentioned you



"lick my swingers you lucky people"
-coxyyxoc

probably til friday
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

fair enough



"lick my swingers you lucky people"
-coxyyxoc

In fact probably Thursday

Im cyber arguing with Jeff Tweedy on Friday
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

i will say that there's a few good Crowded House albums... Temple of Low Men is fucking great.


_________

Bums Logic

because you were subject to criticism, i'll give you at least til eob today to gloat. but after that i'm afraid you're just going to be obvious.

had it been something positive (a compliment), you'd only have about 1 hour total.



"lick my swingers you lucky people"
-coxyyxoc

Baffy its the curse of twitter...fucking abbrev everything to fit 140 chars

Fair enough! I'm glad I never joined Twitter then!

's all,
peas,
Baffy

"And her Baffy’s got arch
And her flipflop's all right"

there is only one good crowded house song: better be home soon

that's it.

everything else is mediocre

soooooo
does all this kerpfluffel mean we are now allowed to use our Iphones at Ryan's upcoming gigs? Cause I will be sitting in the front row of one and it is so tempting to try to buy something off of ebay ...

"but Ryan, the auction is ending in 5 minutes and I need to get that Iron Maiden t-shirt"

lol @ moonbeam

that's a great point

Badger....I am sure he is not over it. He most likely has a long list of every fan who has ever bad-mouthed his words, actions, or work.

Consider yourself in good company!

I don't know why anyone would want to badgerwolfhunter?
________________

Doug's Discs

i once gave ryan a horse cock at a show and he was very pleasant to me

Fun fact: the drummer from Crowded House also played the chef from The Wiggles (kid's show), then he killed himself.

OMG REALLY???????????????????

I'm not gonna lie, I've had a crush on Greg for years

Me too!

Another fun fact: My ex has the same exact name as Greg from The Wiggles. He's a musician too so it's probably a pain in the ass explaining that he's not the guy in the yellow shirt.

Yep, that's him. Fruit salad, yummy yummy.

not BRYan Adams.... RYan Adams.


_________

Bums Logic

Paul the Cook was also the Blue Wiggles' father!

No way! Do you mean he was supposed to be his dad on the show? He was too young to be Anthony's(Blue Wiggle)real dad.

Paul was in the Split Enz too. The truth is slowly coming out that Neil Finn is the anti-christ. Shame. I liked the Split Enz too.

"there is only one good crowded house song: better be home soon

that's it.

everything else is mediocre"

Wow - what a statement that is! I know music is subjective and emotional - but EVERYTHING? Pretty harsh statement - but each to their own of course - still - At least humor a new poster and try this:

http://www.youtube.co/watch?v=V1REjiWWXK8

Cheers

You can't edit these posts can you!? If that link didn't work - this should!

http://youtu.be/V1REjiWWXK8

I dunno, inky, maybe wiki is wrong? It's happened before? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wiggles

Minor characters of note include The Cook (portrayed by Anthony Field's late father, John, and Crowded House late drummer Paul Hester)

oh but wait


if their birth years are also correct on wiki, that would have made Hester 4 years old when Field was conceived

clearly the sentence meant Paul the Cook was played by TWO characters, one was Field's father whose name was JOHN

ok got it now lol

hey made in leeds
i've listened to crowded house lots.
are they horrible? nope
would i ever put one of their songs on a mix? only "better be home soon"

one-hit wonders

totally kidding

Thats fair enough TB - I'm not here to preach or spread the word - just interested in opinions - I'm always amazed how music has the capacity to rock one persons world, yet to 100 others its like nails been raked down a chalk board! what about Neil's solo or collaborative work like:

This with Wilco et al:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Y5LoPtLCU

I saw Crowded House probably 18 years ago and Roger McGuinn opened for them, solo. Somewhere near the end of his set, all of the members of Crowded House came out without introduction, totally dressed down, and backed him for Tamborine Man and 8 Miles High. I thought that was pretty class.

Stu73 - You know, you are not far wrong - well, as far as chart action in the US is concerned! Don't Dream its over peaked at number 2 on the US Billboard hot 100 in 1987 & they never managed to get anywhere near that kind of chart success again - either as a band, or Neil solo. Yet some of the most devoted fans I know are from the US.

Inky - I have that collaboration on CD - if you want a copy - drop me you details to madeinleeds@hotmail.co.uk - Cheers

yeah man neil finn is good
again, not great. mediocre was overly harsh. i take it back ;)

My last post on this subject (thankfully I hear you say) - Talk of the late, great Paul Hester (RIP) up thread reminded me - Sheryl Crow was inspired to write a song about him call "Everyday is a winding Road" - Neil Finn did backing vocals - Sheryl then paid Neil back on a little known track called "Turn & Run". Both songs worth checking out...

I was watching the Finn Brothers at The Royal Albert Hall the day after Paul Hester died.

Neil and Tim cried through almost every song and Nick came and played bass with them for the night. We all just blubbed continually as every Crowded House song took on a new meaning...they put a lone drum, hi-hat & sticks at the front of the stage, as Paul used to play at at every gig when they did a few acoustic songs, or 'Sister Madly'

Most emotional gig of my life. Was a privilege to have attended that show

When they played Better Be Home Soon the whole place just died in a flood of tears

It was credit to the Finns to play that gig when their best mate had died the night before. Not many artists would have done that, but as they said they wanted to grieve with the fans of the band and sing the songs in tribute to Paul that night in London
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

bump

- Madeinleeds

I spent some time listening to The Very, Very best of Crowded House the other day and realized how many songs I had forgotten from years ago, that I really liked. The two-disc set version is a really nice collection.

i have that one as well stu

it's a good one for sure

Dear Bryan, I just want you to know I think it's fantastic your Robin Hood song stayed at number one for so long here in the UK

1st post and it's a Ryan/Bryan joke. ban this person...just cuz.

**********************************

'just start the song asshole' - Jeff Tweedy

The only thing missing from this thread is the term 'open letter'
------------------------------

Well, maybe not the only thing, but it should have been used




comma police
I've given all I can
It's not enough
------------------------------

I thought it started out with 'openly gay letter'.

It's Karma Police by the way (unless that's a play on words, in which case it's quite funny)

Ryan Adam writes boring boy band country songs,self pitying break up lyrics, and sings them in a whining voice.

Who does he think he is playing with his phone and acting like a spoilt twat on stage with other musicians?

Well, Ryan, if you're reading, Neil Finn is not only a genius, and you are not, but he'd kick you're one dimensional boyband country ass if it came down to it.

If only you were Hank Williams

The annoying thing is, I do actually really like Cold Roses

I do know that it is actually karma police!


------------------------------
comma police
I've given all I can
It's not enough
------------------------------

i hate it when ryan posts here. especially when people realize it's him.



"lick my swingers you lucky people"
-coxyyxoc

Poison? What poison?

Can someone explain the Paki lyrics to me? Why did someone post them, then?

Can someone explain the Paki lyrics to me? Why did someone post them, then?

Is it an 'in joke'? Supposed to be funny?

you're an in joke.

**********************************

'just start the song asshole' - Jeff Tweedy

This thread didn't seem worth reading to me until doonspar showed up.

Seriously, was it someone being racist? Or are they lyrics from a song 'having a go' at racism? Am I missing something? Why would racists be interested in an alt country forum? They're not Ryan Adams lyrics, are they? Is it ironic, or actually racist?

Hey, Ryan. Everyone is glowing over your new album, badger and you are in a tiff, Steve Jobs died and Gringo didn't feel the need to follow him into the grave. I guess what I'm saying here is that the world seems to be a bit topsy-turvy at the moment. But, just so you know that not all is out of order, that there are still some things that have not changed... I still think you're an assclown. Have an awesome day, slugger.

Ok, I think its time to let the cat out of the bag.

I'm Ryan Addams.

I'm also a self-loathe rthat pays Dave to run this message board so my people over at RAAA have something to feel special about.

You're all welcome.

I just paid $53 (Canadian) to see Willie Cash? You motherfucker!

ps - please play 'Come Pick Me Up' I love that song.

**********************************

'just start the song asshole' - Jeff Tweedy

All Hank Jr. B sides for you, bub.

please play return of the grievous angel

please


Gregory Alan Isakov - Virginia May (Folk Radio UK Session) by Folk Radio UK

"Seriously, was it someone being racist? Or are they lyrics from a song 'having a go' at racism? Am I missing something? Why would racists be interested in an alt country forum? They're not Ryan Adams lyrics, are they? Is it ironic, or actually racist?"

Doonspar, in answer to your question. Yes. They're Ryan lyrics from the new album. We were all a little confused at first but in the context of the album it'd be hard to imagine what else he could have written!
---------------------------------

I knew it. Doonspar is Ryan.

Am still a little confused, what is the context of his new album if I may ask?

"Am still a little confused, what is the context of his new album if I may ask?"

Racial divides in modern America.
---------------------------------

doonspar is badger?

doonspar is not Ryan or a badger! But doonspar in interested in the the lyrics (paki..paki.. etc) and their relation to the new Ryan album. Anyone care to fill me in?

Better Be Home Soon! I forgot that song existed, it's great.

I'd bet 70,000 on the fact that this is badgerwolf.
Classic new identity archetype.

Come one you're richer than this...

Nah, Doonspar is Ryan. I'm convinced. Plus, it would just be funnier, if he was.

Doonspar is almost definately Liam Finn
----------------------------------

LONG LIVE THE KNIG!
"My folks generation had The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, but to me The Smiths are my Beatles and my Rolling Stones.
That one band covers it all for me"
- Ryan Adams.

Or maybe Sharon Finn! Or Tim Finn! Or Eryl Flyn!